Talk:Balhae

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[edit] Archived

PLEASE ADD THE MAP!!! WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BEAUTIFUL MAP OF BALHAE!!! UPDATE AND MAP IS NEEDED. THANK YOU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koreanstudy1 (talk • contribs) 13:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

What happened to the map??? Please add the map. Deeply appreciated. MAP IS NEEDED!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Teacherjj1 (talk • contribs) 10:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I've now archived this page since it was almost 230 kb long and Wikipedia guideline suggest archiving pages larger than 32 KB. Deiaemeth 08:44, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I've archived material prior to April of this year. zadignose 03:47, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Mediation taken by Armed Blowfish and Daniel Bryant

We strongly recommend private mediation. To request an account on the private Mediation Wiki, please click on the mail link in my signature. Include "Goguryeo" somewhere in the subject, e.g. "Private wiki account request for Goguryeo mediation". If you do not have email enabled on your account and are unable to use the mail link, please click on my username in my signature and let me know on my talk page. You should also read the Mediation Committee policy on confidentiality. This message is being posted elsewhere. Thanks, Armed Blowfish (mail) 19:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:NCGN Violation

There are numerous violations of WP:NCGN in this article. WP:NCGN states that 'When a widely accepted English name, in a modern context, exists for a place, we should use it'. Manchuria is an archaic names which describes the modern geographic region of NE China in the period from 1635 to 1945. In the modern context, that name is called NE China, and should be used instead of Manchuria. Using Manchuria to describe the region out of its relevant historical period of 1635 to 1945 is therefore a violation of WP:NCGN. Will the editors here please correct the violations.
Wiki Pokemon 03:28, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Map caption: 'Balhae territory at the height of properity'

What is 'properity'? Mumun 無文 14:03, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Prosperity probably. I guess the map needs some rework. Cydevil38 22:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll replace it with the modified version that says "Balhae's territory at its greatest extent". Cydevil38 00:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks good! ㅋ ㅋ Mumun 無文 11:41, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mohe vs Malgal

In its current form the article uses both "Mohe" and "Malgal" for the same entity. I would prefer "Malgal" as that more closely approximates the pronounciation of the Chinese character-phoneticization of the time of the article. Comments? Doc Rock (talk) 19:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I support this name change. Not only have Koreans been calling the people once up North "Malgaljok" (말갈족/靺鞨族) for centuries, they are closely related to the development of Parhae than to some other obscure Chinese polities. Undoubtly under the sphere of Korean history so the respective name should be used. Kuebie (talk) 19:35, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Mohe, Malgal, and 靺鞨 mean the same thing, but the Wikipedia article name is under Mohe. That is why "Mohe" is used here. You can't just change it because it's called "Malgal" in Korea. If you wish to change the article name in the English Wikipedia, you should follow the procedure at WP:RM.--Endroit (talk) 20:27, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Malgal is more correct way to describe them, even Mohe or Malgal themselves called Malgal rather than Mohe.

It should be the majority of historical sources about the Mohe/Malgal are in Chinese, and they largely did not live in what is now Korea. I do not believe that using "Malgal" here or in the Mohe article is appropriate. It is sufficient to note the different pronunciation in the languages and move on. --Nlu (talk) 22:34, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Then use the proper Jurchen word for replacement of Mohe, Mohe doesn't sound anything like local to real Jurchen people; it's Chinese therefore require replacement. Mohe or malgal wasn't even Chinese begin with. Korsentry 04:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Yalu vs. Amrok

I've changed hearts and eyes considered only the land south of the Yalu as their .. to hearts and eyes considered only the land south of the Amrok... This is because the original was written by a Korean author and not a Chinese person. Koreans don't call the river Yalu; that's a Chinese name. We call it the Amrok. I just wanted to be very clear on this because some people think that the river Yalu is called Yalu by everyone around the world; sorry, that isn't the case. Idoversuperego (talk) 13:48, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Amrok is actually more native name of that river, Yalu is name that used later times, only by the Chinese.

[edit] Why isn't this article at "Bohai"?

The founders were Mohe, not Korean. The only historical records - whether of Chinese or native origin - are written in classical Chinese. It seems a stretch to me to say that "the founder, though Mohe, served the Goguryo, and the Goguryo are sort of Korean, kind of, and so therefore the Bohai must be Korean".

Is NASA a Nazi German institution because Werner von Braun previously served the German Nazi regime? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 12:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Your example is seriously flawed because the founder's origin from Malgal is not a hard fact. Just like NASA, located in the US and serves the states, Balhae was located on the Korean peninsula and has been regarded as one of the kingdoms of Korea by scholars. The state consisted of Koreans and Malgal people too. Besides, if your logic were so right, British people have become French or Danish or German because their country was ruled by several kings from such the foreign countries? Please refrain yourself from pushing CPOV here again like you did on ume article. --Appletrees (talk) 13:11, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Parhae founded by Malgals? Since when? Don't tell me you actually think the Malgals, who backstabbed Koguryo, are the direct decendents of the Manchus ...and that somehow makes them Chinese enough that this article should be moved to the god awful sounding "Bohai."

Please take your fantasies elsewhere. Kuebie (talk) 01:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

The capital of Bohai is located in modern (and traditional) Chinese territory. Its founder was Mohe - and even if that is disputed, what is the evidence that he is Korean in the modern sense of the word?

The nation, as far as it can be determined, wrote its own records in Chinese, not ancient Korean (if such a thing exists).

Appletrees - what is CPOV, and can you point out what you are referring to at ume instead of making wild and blanket accusations?

You say Bohai is "located on the Korean peninsula" - it is not. It ruled from what is today China, a portion of its territory being in what is today Korea. By your argument, China is also Korean because various Chinese dynasties ruled territories which are today a part of Korea. It is a flawed argument.

You say Bohai is regarded as a "Korean kingdom". I haven't seen such an argument except in sources of Korean origin.

Kuebie, I don't understand what you are saying. What evidence do you have that the Mohe "backstabbed Goguryo"? What evidence do you have, in fact, that Goguryo is "Korean" in the modern sense? And I do not understand what you are saying when you say the Mohe are the direct descendants of the Manchus at all. The Manchus arose several centuries after, they cannot be the ancestors of the Mohe.

Can one of you present a coherent list of the arguments for why this article is at a Korean pronunciation of the Chinese name? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Northeast Project of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences is what you're holding now.

I wrote the past tense, not present as writing "was" located on the Korean peninsula. So please carefully distinguish other people's comment. I also haven't heard such claim except you bringing up here. Perhaps what you need the most is logical argument here. The mention of the ume is actually not a sole opinion and your argument was shown and pointed out as such by some people. --Appletrees (talk) 00:09, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

There are still no or very little evidence to support Balhae was exclusively Mohe people, today there are no or very little Mohe people in current location of past Balhae boarders, certainly China can not claim it as their as Mohe aren't Chinese, after the Qing Empire resign, most of Mohe were pushed off and evntually destroyed by Russian expansion at far Eastern Siberia and Manchuria.

If you study Balhae's artifacts and relics it carries strong Goguryeo influence because of high class people in Balhae was Goguryeo ethnicity, not a single Chinese ethnics were living within Balhae's territory. Balhae should be put under Korean history because of founding factions were survival of Goguryeo & Baekje not Mohe or Chinese. Mohe were just another ethnicity that lived under Balhae's dominion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Consoleman (talk • contribs) 11:25, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Balhae is a shared history between what's today's Korea and Chinese Republic. It's a history of Manchuria, and of neither nations. Therefore the article shouldn't be biased towards either side. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Huang Tai Ji (talk • contribs) 01:28, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

back from 22:05, 26 June 2009 for 24 hours, ip and my accounts only edited twice. is that no biased to use ancient Asian kingdom, but not to use Chinese or korean kingdom? Gzhao (talk) 23:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Balhae

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Contents

[edit] Archived

[edit] Request for Mediation taken by Armed Blowfish and Daniel Bryant

[edit] WP:NCGN Violation

[edit] Map caption: 'Balhae territory at the height of properity'

[edit] Mohe vs Malgal

[edit] Yalu vs. Amrok

[edit] Why isn't this article at "Bohai"?

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