User talk:Fuhghettaboutit

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——————————————— TALK PAGE ———————————————

ATT HD NC EAR HM AH AIV CSD NEW PER ESP RM VPR TSD AFD

????
/Release to us
/Welker Cochran
/Mingaud
Translation
Useful language dump
Corrections spreadsheet
/sandbox
/List of pocket billiards games
Archive 1: March 27, 2006
Archive 2: June 26, 2006
Archive 3: August 11, 2006
Archive 4: November 1, 2006
Archive 5: March 30, 2007
Archive 6: June 24, 2007
Archive 7: September 13, 2007
Archive 8: December 22, 2007
Archive 9: June 16, 2007
Archive 10: March 27, 2009
/Black Desert

---

If you leave a comment for me below I will likely comment back here as well, but I might also duplicate on your talk page, depending on context or if you request. Please sign your comments by placing ~~~~ at the end and note that new posts belong at the bottom of the page. Thanks.

Contents 1 Enfield Town F.C. 2 DYK for Future of newspapers 3 Stephano Sabetti review 4 block on 211.120.229.142 5 Brooklyn 6 Thanks! 7 2008 Beijing Drum Tower stabbings 7.1 Moved again 7.2 Moved again 8 ACA Page 9 Request 10 Call for help on Rick Berman Page 11 Thanks 12 Thanks for your help! 13 Talk:2008 Beijing Drum Tower incident during the Olympic Games 14 Shamos 15 Rights 16 Talkback 17 Help Desk Talk Page 18 Reference desk barnstar 19 CfD that may interest you 20 Thnx 21 Yes 22 Refs 23 Happy Fuhghettaboutit's Day! 24 GM Hywire 25 thanks 26 Rollback request 27 Phatch 28 Speedy deletion 29 CSD G12 on Nicki Minaj 30 "cuegloss" 31 Thanks 32 Thanks 33 Oldprodfull 34 Phatch / Thanks 35 Apparently about GM Giant and McIrish 36 Bombat 37 Brandon Martinez 38 THANK YOU! 39 WP:RM cleanup 40 BringIt question 41 Goats 42 Nanoscale wiki format and content assistance 43 Thanks 44 NowCommons: File:Betsy1901.jpg 45 Kevin Cornwall page 46 Goat Star 47 Trusted Opinion 48 Ground billiards article in the works 49 AfD early closure 50 Mexican Federal Highway 9 51 Hey 52 Two viewpoints on cleanup tags 53 Revelation about the meaning of "unverifiable" 54 Re-formatting "Paid Editing" responses 55 Thanks 56 Kelly Pool 57 Thanks! 58 Thanks spam 59 Chiropractic controversy and criticism 60 Thank you 61 What Is This?

[edit] Enfield Town F.C.

Re your comments on my Talk page, I posted replies to Ericsback both on my Talk page (at 11:49, 23 May 2009 (UTC)) and his (at 12:03, 23 May 2009 (UTC)), before I requested help. I will now bung something on the Talk page for Enfield Town F.C. as well. I will also remove the unverifiable POV stuff. On my Talk page Ericsback admits some of the stuff he posted is point of view and says, 'If you look at what has been written, it merely states the point of view of many fans in the Enfield area as to the motivation of those who set up ETFC and at no time does it claim this to be "fact".' The problem is I don't want to get struck out for keeping on removing the same stuff but even the person who posts it admits it isn't verifiable.

Anyway, thanks for your help. I am fairly new to this and could quite frankly do without the confrontation. Jancyclops (talk) 22:16, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] DYK for Future of newspapers

On 26 March, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Future of newspapers, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Dravecky (talk) 18:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for beginning the process of straightening out the refs. I'm not a great technology person, having come out of the print world, but I'll try to chip in on that. Thanks, also, for the DYK nom. Enjoy your weekend. As always, MarmadukePercy (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for all your help with the piece, and for fixing the refs. Have a lovely weekend. Best, MarmadukePercy (talk) 19:16, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Stephano Sabetti review

I've sent a couple of messages to you, having made the suggested changes to the article. Since I haven't heard from you, i fear you've grown weary of it. I've tried to remove any subjective tone that gives it an infomercial feel, added inline citations from sources that addressed only Sabetti, removed references to his works in the article, and cut it to bare bones. I understand if you've tired of this article, and so I would just ask that you let me know either way. I value your input; you really know the "rules of the road" and you've been extremely gracious to me. If you'd rather not comment anymore, I guess I'll just try the help desk. I hope you have the time/patience, but... Thanks again for all your help!! --LEMspare (talk) 11:52, 28 March 2009 (UTC)--LEMspare (talk) 11:55, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi LEMspare. Sorry I haven't gotten back to you. I feel bad about it. I kept meaning to and then something else would crop up and I'd lose the thread . That's not a good excuse I know, but it's the truth. Anyway, I have reviewed the new version. It's much better. I am not saying it would definitely survive an aricles for deletion debate but I think it's past the point of being speedy deleted as blatant advertising. I'm curious: Are any of the footnotes linkable online? That would make it easier for someone looking at the article to check themselves that they verify what they purport to verify. In any event, I think you're as ready as you're going to be to "go live"; to move the article to the article space. Again I can't guarantee anything, but go for it.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:10, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] block on 211.120.229.142

hello, your block on 211.120.229.142 due to vandalism just expired and needs to be lengthened- I just removed vandalism in FN P90 by this individual thanks137.149.226.94 (talk) 01:12, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Blocked for another 48 hours. Thanks for the heads up.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:34, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Brooklyn

Hello again, and thanks for all your help with Newspapers. Here's one I've been adding to in drips and drabs, and hope to focus on soon. It's skeletal right now, but I think you'll agree has potential because of the subject matter. Have a lovely weekend. [1] Best, MarmadukePercy (talk) 04:51, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

I was the one who added the then non-existant link for the American Civic Association to the Binghamton shootings article. I was expecting that someone would remove it before anyone would actually create the article, but I was wrong! Thanks for your contribution. --Tocino 04:52, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] 2008 Beijing Drum Tower stabbings

I would wish to inform you that User:Comingattractions, who I believe was a suspected sockpuppeteer engaged previously in page-move warring of same, is back again. Xhe recently moved the article to 2008 Beijing Drum Tower incident without discussion. Although I am totally neutral about this move/name, I am a bit disturbed that xhe has executed this move by stealth. What's more, the edit summary blatantly alleged the lack of good faith. Kindly advise what should be done. Thanks, Ohconfucius (talk) 13:39, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ohconfucius. I don't see any "stealth" here (actually I see boldness) but I have reversed the move as given the past move warring, this should not be moved without discussion, and the usr had to be aware of the move discussion given that he reverted the talk page to an earlier version, calling it censorship (apparently unaware of the link to the archive in the talk header). I have also dropped a note on the user's talk page. I see no need to investigate any sockpuppetry at this time. I hope the user will simply take what I have done in stride and open a formal requested move if he feels strongly about the other name. If move warring starts again, however, I will take a more global look but let's assume good faith. No damage done as of now.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:39, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

• OK. Thanks for your prompt action. Ohconfucius (talk) 16:32, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

ok, here, I know you aren't going to understand the following situations so I invite you to discuss it with me. how, I have no idea. but you can figure it out.

as for the archiving issue... it should be evident and plain that if you shorten a page and people (users) can't retrieve every contribution that has been made, that you are indeed censoring.

now, you won't follow this thought too well. simplifying it, the article in question has been under dispute for many months. there are people with vendettas on here trying to get it removed, consolidated, and merged with meaningless or seemingly trivial ones. you should be asking yourself why this is the case. additionally you have people with little better to do than stir up problems and controversies. I am sorry, I and others will not go along with them. Comingattractions (talk) 09:48, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

further, I am not interested in submitting requests for the reasons stated. the process has been ignored by most users on this site, it has been overrun and hijacked by the troublemakers. and you can't expect me and other people to pay attention to every ridiculous request furnished by these guys. we do have lives to lead that don't involve this kind of minutiae. not only that, how can you expect people to want to follow such sick melodramatic issues? I feel certain you are a responsible user of Wikipedia. know this, I have been on the site for longer than you and I don't like how it is being mocked and made fun of. hundreds if not thousands of users are being driven away but more often they choose to boycott or abandon this webpage. if you can't understand the topics I am talking about, I will choose further actions. that isn't a threat, just a bit tired of the craziness. you, Fuhgettaboutit, don't even realize that you are talking to a user with a conscience. also you did not even spell your name correctly! I mean maybe you didn't know that; yes it isn't that important, just pointing it out to you. Comingattractions (talk) 09:56, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

You're right that I'm not going to understand everything that you're saying very well. I think it's largely because of a mild language barrier (coupled with a debilitating lack of specificity). It's always difficult to get your precise point across when writing as a non-native speaker, as you appear to be. I sympathize with that and will try. But what I ask of you is that you do your best to provide links to exactly what it is you are talking about. For example diffs showing exactly where information was removed, such that it "can't [be] retrieved" thus backing your claim of "censorship". To put a fint point on it: What, precisely, was removed from the talk page that is not included in the archive?

Note that simply reverting the talk page to a prior version is not the way to go about this. By doing so you are removing the page move discussion and any edits made after archiving. If there is information removed that is not included in the archive as you allege, then point our where it was removed (again, show me, using diffs) and I will attempt to restore it to there (depending on what it is of course, there are proper, though limited, reasons for removing certain talk page posts). If you truly object to the archiving itself, then I don't think it would be a problem to restore a relevant portion of past discussion on the move issues to the talk page. But you have to do that properly, by removing the information from a time point of the archive manually, and then restoring it to the talk page without removing later discussion. I will do this for you if it sounds too complicated; just tell me the restoration point.

With regard to users with "vendettas on here trying to get it removed, consolidated, and merged with meaningless or seemingly trivial ones", again you have to be specific and transparent. But even if this is true, what in the world does this have to do with the name of the article? We are not here about any proposed deletion of the article, any mergers and so on. We are here about the move war of the article from one name to another, the lengthy discussion that ensued, and your apparent wish that the article be at a different name following my move to "2008 Beijing Drum Tower stabbings" after closing the requested move request.

You're third "point" has no discernible thread to it and is troubling. You won't make a move request but will simply act without discussion because "[rant about users, hijackers, craziness; personal attack]" Well, I am now going to reverse your out of process page move (again) and I will act to make the move targets dificult for you to repeat this move again. In this, I am acting to protect you from yourself. Your present actions can only lead to getting yourself in trouble. Calm discussion is the order of the day. It is what we do here when things are contentious. The underlying point throughout your post that you will continue to do as you please without discussion is perfectly suited to obtaining the opposite result from your goal. Please reconsider taking further unilateral actions. I don't know this but I wouldn't be surprised if you told me making a move request presents a technical barrier for you. I will help you make a further move request if you want. Simply ask and provide a rationale for why the article should me moved to the other name and I will make the request.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:40, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Moved again

Just to let you know it's been moved again, and by the same user. I don't want to make waves, and I don't object to the title, but the fact that xhe has gone another 'out of process move' bugs me, as xhe is responsible for several times during the 18 moves which this article has been through. I asked for comment and patiently for two months for feedback, and along comes this rather bullying editor who moves it in within days of it acquiring a new title. I'm tempted to let this one ride, as xhe may be doing this deliberately to bait. Then, there is the diatribe above is just plain insulting. Ohconfucius (talk) 15:11, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ohconfucius. As you can see from the above, I am aware of the issue and am taking action. I don't care what name this article has but I will not allow a continuation of the move war. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:45, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

• Thank you for your attention. I just noticed it was not moved to the same destination as the last time, and I do object to the title. I have struck out the relevant word in my comment above. Ohconfucius (talk) 04:20, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Moved again

Believe it or not, it's been moved again and to another different title, and by the same user. Now I see why it was moved 18 times in rapid succession in the early days of its life. Ohconfucius (talk) 04:38, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I moved it back before you posted this (actually it was just the talk page as I protected the previous move targets) and the user has been blocked. Very persistent but very poor choice. I even offered to make a new requested move discussion for him. Ah well. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] ACA Page

I will create a new page specifically referencing the Binghamton ACA and update the shooting articles accordingly, but the article you created is for an organization that not longer exists. Not that that doesn't mean it shouldn't have a Wikipedia entry, of course. But your intent was to create one referencing the Binghamton organization. The Binghamton ACA is not a "chapter" or "affiliate" or even closely related in any way, shape, or form to the organization you wrote the article about.

--Dcamin (talk) 16:47, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I just posted a note to your talk page on this exact topic (and had not seen this post before I posted there); we're two ships passing in the night. We are generally in agreement. A new article is fine. The current article should remain, the Binghamton material removed from it, and the link in the shooting page disambiguated and changed to point to either a red link, or that new article you create. This is a precis of what I said on your talk page in more detail and with links to process pages with more information. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:54, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes we are definitely - I just got an edit conflict posting this to your page. :)

Just so you're aware of my specific knowledge, I am a Binghamton resident and serve on the allocations panels as a chair of the United Way of Broome County, and specifically the ACA is a part of the panel that I chair. I regularly receive updates on their status, their history, and their structure. I am creating a separate Binghamton-based ACA article as we speak and altering the links as appropriate. I would agree with you that a national organization (even if defunct) would likely be the best to assume the non-regionalized article title first.

--Dcamin (talk) 16:58, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Request

Hello Fuhghettaboutit. :) I'd like to know if you wouldn't mind taking a look at this case, and doing a review of the report for me, then commenting on the case. Comingattractions might need his block increased to indef. Thanks. Synergy 16:27, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Fuhghettaboutit, I would like to discuss with you your offer to open a move discussion. in conjunction with that, I would like to talk to you about other matters too. Comingattractions (talk) 10:12, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

All worked out before I got to it. Sockpuppetry confirmed and indef blocked.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:22, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Call for help on Rick Berman Page

Hey there, Fuhghettaboutit, I am having some revision troubles and neutrality issues with the Rick Berman page. I could use an administrator. There is one or two users who are particurally engaging in edit wars and have undone edits, ignored talk pages, and despite my paragraphs of attempts in explaining, they have continued to inject poorly sourced information, opinionated criticisms (on a living person), and the sources are often improperly synthesized and or are very dubious; such as an email or an IRC chat. I added the page to a notice board of biographies of living persons, but I could really use some backing from an administrator. I have detailed notes on the talk page. I have been working on that page for months, on and off, and that criticism section has been a source of contention for a very long time. Thanks in advance. --☯Lightbound☯ ^talk 23:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Lightbound is not being entirely honest in his summary (and is not entirely innocent himself), but yes, please, take a look at the article, if only so we can stop the back-and-forth bickering. TheRealFennShysa (talk) 00:04, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Wow, you come to the administrators page and call me a liar? Thats bold. The history log and talk page have it all written out for all to see. Nothing I have said is untruth. Besides, you were not the only user I was having an issue with. There were anonymous edits as well. It seems I have had some support from another editor and the article is somewhat stabilizing, but we could use a hand to be sure. --☯Lightbound☯ ^talk 03:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for your help with the Rp template. kilbad (talk) 00:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your help!

Thanks for directing me to the proposals section of the Village Pump when I posted at the help desk. p.s. I like your name. Arnie-speak is a riot. :) --Tyranny Sue (talk) 05:31, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:2008 Beijing Drum Tower incident during the Olympic Games

Hi, Fuhghettaboutit. Sorry about that. I saw a redirect on a talk page without a corresponding redirect on the article page and deleted it without realising that it may have been placed there for another purpose. I have restored it. Cheers. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 14:27, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Shamos

Do you have the 1999 version yet? I forgot to bug you about that. ;-) — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 04:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Nope. As I think I said previously, I wasn't planing on getting it unless I happen across it, and I don't see the need. Does it significantly expand on the the previous version? By the way, I think we're almost rounding the corner on sourcing the glossary. Do you think there's a shot of it being the first "featured glossary" once fully source?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:39, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Rights

I found this image that is in public domain by the maker of the photo because there is no credit to the photo. All I need to do is add the proper right to the page. Can you help?Kingrock 05:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Talkback

Kingrock 06:20, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Help Desk Talk Page

Awwww ... come on Fuhghettaboutit, tell us how you really feel about the resolved tag. ;). Cheers buddy, hope life is treating you well. — Ched :  ?  07:22, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't think I every really gave it much thought. As I read through what you wrote, it did make perfect sense. I've often had a tid-bit of information that I thought might be useful, but declined comment simply because someone deemed the thread to be closed. It's not often I see the ability to blunt without being rude, and I tip my hat to you in that regard. ;). On a curious note, do you have a blog, or any other material outside Wikipedia that showcases you writing abilities? Not that it's any of my business, but I do find your eloquence to be both enjoyable and educational. (well, maybe that was a little over the top - but I do like what you write). ;) — Ched :  ?  23:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Reference desk barnstar

		The Reference Desk Barnstar
		Thanks so much for telling me that photo was a daddy long legs. I can't quite believe how I didn't noticed it myself... they're very common! I found another unknown spider and am offering another barnstar for its identification. Jolly Ω Janner 00:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] CfD that may interest you

Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 April 13#Category:Female pool players. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 07:24, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thnx

Thanks for your help! It is really appreciated. --GandalftheWise (talk) 21:46, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Anytime:-)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:48, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Yes

That's what I wanted. Please remove the helpme template by replacing it with { { tlx|helpme}}. Thanks. --GandalftheWise (talk) 22:13, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Great. You know you kow you can tl|/tl|x/tnull| the template yourself without any problem right?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:18, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Refs

hey there Fuhghettaboutit, how you doing this fine day? Hey, I was looking over the Larry Sanger article (and left notes on talk page). I remembered you helping before, and I'm not asking you to copyedit the article, it would be too much of a hassle in the long run I think. What I was wondering though, is the info you gave me on how to cite paragraphs, sentences, etc. Do you have a link to anything that would reinforce what I'm getting at on the talk page? I'd like to do a little cleanup on the article, but all things considered, I'd like to have something to back up what I'm doing. I know about the wp:cite/wp:ref page - do you have anything further that might help me? Thanks, Ched. — Ched :  ?  18:47, 23 April 2009 (UTC) (hey, you archived your talk page ... lol)

[edit] Happy Fuhghettaboutit's Day!

Fuhghettaboutit has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Fuhghettaboutit's day! For your awesome work in articlespace and the Help Desk, enjoy being the Star of the day, Fuhghettaboutit! Cheers, bibliomaniac15 04:47, 24 April 2009 (UTC) If you'd like to show off your awesomeness, you can use this userbox.

[edit] GM Hywire

Good job Greglocock (talk) 23:39, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Greg. I really do appreciate such comments. Closing requested move surveys is an area where you get very little feedback.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:43, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] thanks

Thank you for restoring/moving Iranian calendar to its right place.--Xashaiar (talk) 00:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

You're most welcome Xashair.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:23, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Rollback request

Hi, Fuhghettaboutit. I would be grateful if you would grant me rollback permission. I find myself doing rollbacks the long way, fairly frequently, and the tool would be a help. Much obliged for your consideration. Tim Ross (talk) 11:52, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Phatch

Hi, Fuhghettaboutit. My name is Igor Kekeljevic, BA of Fine Arts and GUI designer. I am new to Wikipedia, so I'm appologize if I'm doing something against Wikipedia policy. I wish to talk about Phatch. This is photo batch software made by Stani Michels.

• [2]

I found this message

00:40, 21 November 2008 Fuhghettaboutit (talk | contribs) deleted "Phatch" ‎ (WP:PROD, reason was 'Article does not explain how this software is notable (WP:Notability), or provide any references from reliable, published sources (WP:Verifiability)'.)

At November last year, Phatch didn't deserve a place in Wikipedia, but since then it was very dinamic period for Phatch. I admit I have a personal reasons for requesting Phatch to be a part of Wikipedia, because I contribute to this project. Still I belive that it deserve a place in Wikipedia.

• It is stable, tested and essential tool for graphic design.
• It Free Software - noncomercial product.
• There are 52,600 pages with Phatch on web.
• Phatch is detaily tested by Cannonical and accepted in Ubuntu Repository
• 20 people development team work on it

Can Phatch get a page on Wikipedia? If answer is no, what can be done to achieve this?

Regards, Igor Kekeljevic

Kekeljevic (talk) 13:50, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I have restored the article since it was not deleted on the merits after discussion and undeleting per WP:PROD is normally granted pro forma. Please note that this does not mean the article will not be deleted under a different deletion process. The article is a bit spammy with its list of features rather than neutral prose, is unsourced, and does not contain any indication of its importance (see WP:N).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion

Thanks for your response to my question about speedy deletion. I was quite involved with Wikipedia a few years ago and felt that I knew how it worked. When Darryl mentioned that his page had been speedy deleted twice by different administrators I suggested he ask about it on the Help Desk. My recollection was that speedy deletion was something that was used only in noncontroversial cases, such as obvious junk, copyright infringement, etc. It sounds like times have changed and perhaps the role of Administrator has changed from "trusted executioner of the will of the community and impartial judge of disputes" to "policeman".

It's good to know that this is still a matter of policy debate. I'll see if I can find that discussion and contribute my 10 cents to it. I'll also get Darryl to talk it over nicely with the administrator in question, hopefully get it restored, and put a Under Construction template on the page while he demonstrates to everyone's satisfaction the cellphone network's notability. (He appears quite prepared to do that!)

Ben Arnold (talk) 00:17, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] CSD G12 on Nicki Minaj

Hey, I noticed your denial of speedy on Nicki Minaj. You probably should delete it CSD G12 anyways because this website claims copyright (and probably actually owns it). Let me know what you think. Thank you, ~a (user • talk • contribs) 00:09, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Deleted. Now that I looked a bit closer, it appears that this has been deleted before from here, and the "wikibin" site is some kind of mirror who took it from us before it was previously deleted. So yeah: originally a copyvio of the site you link. Thanks for the heads up.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:19, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] "cuegloss"

I have nominated CUEGLOSS (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. --Zigger «º» 09:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the help,man Isamukage 14:06, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Anytime.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:17, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Hey Thanks for the reply in Wikipedia Help Desk Subash.chandran007 (talk) 14:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Glad to help.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:17, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Oldprodfull

Hello again, Fuhghettaboutit … Some Other Editor thought that "has been" was better than "was" in {{Oldprodfull}}, and at the time, I agreed, but the more I think about it, your revert to my original language is, in fact, better. <Sigh!>

Happy Editing! — 141.156.164.7 (talk · contribs) _{15:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)}

[edit] Phatch / Thanks

Kekeljevic (talk) 13:50, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I have restored the article since it was not deleted on the merits after discussion and undeleting per WP:PROD is normally granted pro forma. Please note that this does not mean the article will not be deleted under a different deletion process. The article is a bit spammy with its list of features rather than neutral prose, is unsourced, and does not contain any indication of its importance (see WP:N).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank You for restoration of article. I'll contact some people to work on article (because my English has a little bit of Engrish :-) ) and make it less spammy and more acceptable for Wikipedia. I please editors of Wikipedia to have little patience till we edit article in optimal form.

Thank for fast respond...

Regards, Igor Kekeljevic

93.86.175.138 (talk) 06:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Apparently about GM Giant and McIrish

[[/it did make perfect sense.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcirish (talk • contribs)

I never referred to the article as nonsense or that it didn't make sense. I deleted it because it failed to indicate the importance or significance of the subject and thus was subject to section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It may seem at first blush like many social networking sites and other places where you can post anything, but it really is an encyclopedia with all that that implies.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Bombat

I'm not sure if this is where you meant for me to write this, but I'm new to wikipedia, so please excuse my ignorance, for I intend no offense. You deleted my page Bombatpage, why? and is there any way to resurrect it? 81928S (talk) 00:29, 12 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81928S (talk • contribs) 00:28, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

This is exactly where you should post comments to me. Yes, I did delete the page Bombat. I did so because this is an encyclopedia. The page was inappropriate for an encyclopedia as an obvious joke-hoax. Your intent may not have been malicious but we can't accept joke material like this. I do have a suggestion though. You can try posting this content as uncyclopedia. As for the material, if you want I can email it to you. However, you would have to go to your preferences and enable your email. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:42, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestion, but I don't think I will be posting my Bombat article on unencyclopedia. Everything written in my article was indeed fact. All of my material was compiled through peer collaboration, from a base of 15 schools spread throughout three states. The material put forth, while not a hoax, could be interpreted as a joke, so I do understand your position. However, I think that this phenomenon, if you will, is definitely large enough to be over-looked as a joke, and have a place in the encyclopedia. This was my justification in adding it to Wikipedia, it was never meant as an act of vandalism.81928S (talk) 00:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I apologize if it really was meant as serious but even looking at it again, it doesn't read that way. In any event, an encyclopedia is a tertiary source and thus we cannot accept original research, nor content that has not been the subject of publication in reliable sources which verifies the material.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:24, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Brandon Martinez

Hi, I did a lot of google searches on this one, but the most blatant part of it is that he scored a goal on May 13, 2009. As in tomorrow. Unless he has some sort of time travel device, unlikely. And they lost their last game on 5/9/2009 3-0, so he didn't score then either.--Terrillja _talk 01:00, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Still not good enough. How do you know the user who posted the article isn't a time traveler? Just kidding. That little bit of impossibility you pointed out is the type of evidence I was looking for. Deleted:-)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] THANK YOU!

Dear, um...., Fuhghettaboutit (I love this name!!!!)- thank you so much for your image assistance. I am really happy to came by so speedily. Now that I have seen this I know how to do it in the future. Thanks, again. Basket of Puppies 00:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Anytime:-)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:44, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] WP:RM cleanup

Hi Fuhghettaboutit. I saw your comment here. I knew that I had removed a number of those that you subsequently also did, so I did some checking in the edit history. Our friend Grawp edited an old revision and messed up the page, which has since been fixed. Just thought I'd let you know we're not getting lazy :) Regards, Parsecboy (talk) 10:44, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Someone else actually reads edit summaries! (very rare to see confirmation that I'm not just talking to myself most of the time). Thanks for the heads up. I don't usually find so many previously moved to cleanup so that makes sense. I hope grawp enjoys the lulz.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 10:56, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's usually the case that we're talking in a vacuum. You know what amazes me? Grawp is still going, after how many years now? You'd have thought he would have lost interest a long time ago. I guess "hagger" doesn't get old... Parsecboy (talk) 16:55, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think the whole thing is probably about celebrity. It's not the vandalism that really gets him off (though obviously he is the type that enjoys that as well). He's made a name for himself, no matter how small, small-minded and dubious is such an anonymous claim to fame. But, yeah, the persistence is impressive!--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:06, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] BringIt question

So, under my talk page, I see my article listed "BringIt.com", however, when I search for my article..."BringIt.com", No sucj luck? Why is this? If my article is safe to post and be viewed by the public, why is it that I cannot search for it in the tool bar? If you could help me out I'd be VERY appreciative. Thanks in advance!! Vertz22 (talk) 16:54, 20 May 2009 (UTC)Sarah16:54, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Fuhghettaboutit-I would very much appreciate help with my issue/confusion. I'm willing to edit/change anything if my article isn't suitable. I've revised and my confusion is the matter of searching for my article by name. Any advice/suggestions? I'd appreciate your help/input. Thank you very much, ur help is always appreciated as I can see here. Thanks again!!! (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC).

Hi Vertz22. The text you've added three times as an article, and once on your talk page (now deleted), is just about the definition of what we consider blatant advertising. (Please note that the blue word in the preceding sentence, and any after this I write are internal links to other pages providing information; you may say "duh" in response to this but some people aren't aware of this, and your posts make me think you may not have read the notices on your talk page carefully). Text on talk pages is not indexed by search engines, so since the text of the deleted article was sitting on your talk page, it was never spidered by Google and other engines. If an article is posted to the encyclopedia mainspace, where article are kept, i.e., at a name that is not preceded by User or user talk, etc., then it would be searchable once indexed. However, this article cannot exist in anything close to the form you have been posting it, and it may be that the subject shouldn't have an article at all, which I'll explain a little later; first let's deal with the advertising aspect.

Wikipedia is not a platform for promotion. Numerous users come here everyday seeking to spam Wikipedia to promote their products, their companies and often themselves. Encyclopedia articles must be written using neutral language and neutral facts, rather than pumping up a product; glossing over any criticism; using peacock language and other problems endemic to these tyoes of articles. A very common hallmark is writing in a first person narrative using possessive pronouns (we, I, our products). Articles should not be written by people who have a conflict of interest, in that they are involved with the subject of the article. As we often say here, if a subject is notable, someone unaffiliated with the subject will eventually write an article. On that secondary point, it may be that even if the article is neutrally worded, no longer appearing as blatant advertising, Wikipedia should not have an article on it because it does not meet our notability guidelines. Notable does not mean the same thing here as it does in everyday speech. Here it means, generally, being the subject of substantive treatment in reliable, independent sources. We have a subject specific notability for web pages at WP:WEB applicable to the article topic you have posted. Thus, even if you post the article in a non-blatant version, it may be deleted on that basis. I hope this note is helpful to you. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:02, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Goats

 Chzz  ►  00:20, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Excellent work, adding that pic. It's way better than nothing. I can't help but think, though - imagine if it were a person? "Here is a pic of another actress that looks a bit like her" :-)

Anyway - I'm doing all that I can to source a pic of William.

In the meantime, that one is great - and later, it will probably still be useful further down the article.

Cheers!  Chzz  ►  21:37, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking it was only placeholder for the infobox when I uploaded it but could serve as a picture for later in the article even if a Blly picture was uploaded. And it adds to the whimsy; the whole thing is so ridiculously funny. The half-mock seriousness of it all. Taffy was awarded a 1914 Star!--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:45, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I've added some rough notes / sourcing info in the talk page; there's some nice bits to be added. Especially about Goat contraception; see BBC, read the last para's. Well, you did say you loved working on it :-)  Chzz  ►  16:07, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Nanoscale wiki format and content assistance

Thank you so very much for your assistance in the matter of the article I'm developing in my sandbox on NanoScale Corp. I was pleasantly surprised, while editing and adding more ref's, to find my refs had been fixed, reformatted and my table of contents was finally where it is supposed to be (how'd you do that by the way? ...for future ref....) Your help has been invaluable. I have been trying to cut, and plan to add small bits of info back, but abiding by wiki etiquette and writing a good wiki is my priority. I could not accomplish such without your help, and that of a few others. So thanks again! NHearn (talk) 19:23, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

One more thing... how do I add an image to my wikipedia article? I've been directed all over, including w.commons, but am a bit lost. Thx! NHearn (talk) 19:25, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again! Hope your week goes well! NHearn (talk) 13:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I am trying my best. I realize that my writing is rough around the edges. I wasn't going to include any of these white papers at all, except for the fact that it was recommended to me by a wikipedian to use some of them as a reference, and I'm not quite sure, as far as wikipedia goes what is expected to be included and what is not. This is very frustrating, especially considering that I'm NOT an english major, in fact, I don't even know what Prose is, (will have to look that up...thought it was some type of poetry style). Anyways. I do appreciate you bringing it to my attention. But please respect the fact that I am still new and naturally I wouldn't know about these things, and it will take me time to understand, which is the whole reason I have not yet posted it outside of my sandbox, so that it won't be torn to shreds within seconds. I appreciate the tips on useful/helpful articles, and am trying to do this properly, but attacks do not encourage me to want to continue this process. However, tips, like the ones you have offered do help. So, please continue to be patient and be kind. Don't bite. Thank you. NHearn (talk) 19:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

WONDERFUL!!;) THIS is something I can go from. I probably sound like an idiot, but considering the gargantuan complexity of Wikipedia it is easy to get lost in the writing (formatting) of an article, and begin regressing intellectually. Yes, I see what you're saying, and I know my article is missing a body altogether, but no matter how hard I try write a neutral tone body, I keep coming across roadblocks. Even the two wikis you'd attached sound a lot like advertisements. I know I need to stay on the neutral tone and just tell the facts. Unfortunately, every time I start writing, it sounds wrong. I'm presently trying to do some research on the background and history of this entity and hopefully give this piece life instead of dry bones. Thank you again. NHearn (talk) 21:35, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

This did occur to me, and I hesitated - I probably reject about 30% of the typo fixes AWB finds. However I still think this is probably optional, see Wiktionary and Google. Rich Farmbrough, 14:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC).

[edit] NowCommons: File:Betsy1901.jpg

File:Betsy1901.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:Betsy1901.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case: [[File:Betsy1901.jpg]]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 08:39, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Kevin Cornwall page

Perhaps you aren't notable. But who decides who is important, you? This guy is only 20 and just plays soccer. I'm an Information Architect for a Fortune 100 company. Thousands of people are exposed to and affected by my work every day. This is not to mention decades of past accomplishments: Noted San Diego, CA (6th largest city in the USA) musician; noted Santa Fe, NM health business owner; influential Character Education and Pledge of Allegiance activist, etc, etc, etc. Listen, what's the problem here? Changing the name of the entry to Kevin Cornwall (Irish Footballer) solves the problem simply with no harm to WP users or the subject.--Kcornwall (talk) 19:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

No, it is extremely harmful; it violates the GFDL; it destroys an existing article to place another. You don't seem to have read my post on your talk page carefully. You shouldn't create any article, since writing about yourself is promotion, and vain, and well nigh impossible to do without violating our neutral point of view policy and against our norms. But, if you do create it, you do so at a separate name, such as Kevin Cornwall (information architect), and if you get past speedy deletion on blatant advertising grounds based on how promotional the article sounded, and if you avoid deletion on notability grounds (by showing you are the subject of substantive treatment in independent, reliable sources, which you can cite in the article to verify its content), we may later determine that you are the primary topic. If that is the case, then it might be that the existing article will be moved to "Kevin Cornwall (footballer)" and the article on you then moved to the primary name. But you may not replace an existing article, with its own edit history by overwriting it. I am so turned off by your post: "he's just 20 and just plays soccer". I have very little tolerance for people here for self-aggrandizement purposes, who fail to read our policies and then write a post like yours.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Sir, I respectfully submit that you are under a gross misapprehension of what the matter is here. I have no interest in self-aggrandizement. I have never had any intention of posting an article about myself. If you read the edit summary, you'd see that I only considered it because it was offered as the only reason for a disambiguation.

Moreover, making personal aspersions is a shameful way to make a point that should be objective. You talk disenchantment with self-importance, yet, you yourself deign to declare that a young guy who plays soccer is more notable than, say, a fireman or nurse, who never mentioned by the media, saves lives every day! If this is about editors and not about their subjects, then certainly, I should be the one disgusted with the tawdriness of what appear to be your personal values.

That line of argument is petty and unproductive - and most likely ends up just plain wrong! For my part, I'm willing to entertain that you may not be directly at fault in this. The notability guidelines themselves possibly need to be more clear. I see now that this is a bigger problem that isn't only affecting me. If this can't be resolved in a win-win, then perhaps I need to start editing the guidelines, if that is where unclear priorities are stemming from (indeed, there is a lot of undefined "substantially" sprinkled throughout). In any case, because a much vaster number of people are more important than what the media or the surface of modern American culture glorifies, I would propose at least this: All articles about people require preemptive disambiguation unless that person's name is not a household word in most countries of the world. Kevin Cornwall, whose only accomplishment being on a soccer team in Ireland, where he is no star, would qualify and the matter settled before it could cause friction.

Again, F, this little fight is silly. Simply changing the name of the entry to Kevin Cornwall (soccer player) solves the problem, simply - no harm to WP readers or the subject, himself. More importantly, the advantage to readers who search for information about a dozen other Kevin Cornwalls is that they won't be misdirected. (Did I mention that I'm a veteran user experience design professional. Even the chance of this kind of ambiguity on a business site would never pass first muster). Kcornwall (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:27, 8 June 2009 (UTC).

How can I respond when it's clear you haven't read or at least haven't taken in any of the links I've provided? Please read my responses again. If you read those links you'll understand things like that notability has nothing to do with whether I think the subject is notable, but has to do with whether the wider world has taken note of a subject by writing about it. This is the way we define it because an encyclopedia is a tertiary source, only having articles on things already previously published in reliable sources. Did you read the link about edit histories and the GFDL? If you had you'd understand why overwriting the article is damaging and and improper and forbidden. If you read my post you'd see that I never compared an article on you to the soccer player with regard to notability st all. If you read what I wrote, you'd see that I explained instead why you can't overwrite an existing article and, if you must create an article on yourself, how to do so. If you understood disambiguation, you'd know that it has nothing to do with notability, but with allowing the most people searching for a subject to reach the correct page, and that if you created an article at a disambiguated name, that article could possibly be later moved to the solo name if it was the primary topic. You overwrite an existing article with material about yourself and now you say you have no interest but simply wish to disambiguate? Okay, let me explain that. We do not disambiguate unless another article exists. Period. We do not change names of articles in light of the possibility of nonexistent articles. You do not get an entry here unless you have an article, and we're full circle back to what I've already explained three times, the proper way for you to post an article, though once again, you should not, because people should not write articles about themselves.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:29, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Goat Star

		The Goat Star
		For contributions to Caprinae Solidarius Lance Corporal William Windsor salutes you!  Chzz  ►  22:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The award is documented in User:Chzz/Recipients of the Goat Star. I am working to progress William Windsor to Good Article status, so please look in some time. Cheers!  Chzz  ►  22:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Trusted Opinion

Good call. I got pissed off when I went to www.trustedopinion.com and saw "As Featured on Wikipedia" minutes after the article was created. Toddst1 (talk) 23:58, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Yuck! You know I despise all the promotion. Vandalism doesn't bother me. It's just the scribblings of morons, easily reverted. All the promotion is what's insidious and hard to take. In my heart of hearts I want to delete every article I come across written by the subjects, stumping for themselves. I rein myself in though and play the good policy advocate, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:56, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Ground billiards article in the works

User:SMcCandlish/Ground billiards. Some parts of it are commented out pending further research. The digging has been interesting. For one thing (not covered at that draft article), I believe that I can show very clearly that trucco is not just some random split-off of ground billiards, but is actually closely related to table billiards, because Stein & Rubino reprint two old woodcuts that show a ring, not an arch, being used as a table-billiard target. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 00:59, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Stanton, can you tell me how you improved File:1674 illustration-The Billiard Table.png? I have Paint.NET. If you are familiar with that, can you tell what I would do (spoonfeeding required) if I wanted to do whatever it is you did the make the image sharper?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:06, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

By the way, please note: Wayman C. McCreery. Very very rough, not really an article at all yet, just a series of cited facts near each other.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:32, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] AfD early closure

Your statement from AfD today: "[...] If this doesn't meet WP:BK I don't know what does (and I wrote WP:BK). This should be snowed."

I wanted to do just that. However, I've never done an early closure before, am not admin, and am unsure of the process ("snow" as argument is discouraged, and "speedy keep" does not apply per Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion#How an AfD discussion is closed). I would like to help out with such things in the future - You have helped me in the past, would you enlighten me once more? - Thanks, Pgallert (talk) 07:52, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey Pgallert. Forget that it is discouraged. It's discouraged because people try to snow or close early debates which aren't patent candidates. This is. It is an obviously frivolous nomination. However, only admins should snow/speedy keep debates that aren't completely unanimous. I have seen many problems when non-admins do so. More importantly, you are completely disqualified from closing this debate (as am I). You participated in the debate and therefore may not close it since you have a conflict of interest.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi Fuhghettaboutit, thanks for the reply. Luckily I also spotted the COI concerns (even though the AfD indeed has the proverbial snowball's chance, with or without my comment), but I would have waited for your comment anyway. Looks like I shall leave such things to admins, then. Best regards, --Pgallert (talk) 09:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Mexican Federal Highway 9

I fail to see how this is not simply "a rephrasing of the title". I'm a fan of roads and road articles, but this just seems silly. --NE2 08:03, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey NE2. A3 starts "Any article consisting only of" (notice the "only of"). The fact that this has an inline citation already takes it out of the criterion. It goes on to state "However, a very short article may be a valid stub if it has context, in which case it is not eligible for deletion under this criterion". It also fits that. A rephrasing of the title often provides no content because the title isn't contextual. Here the title describes what it is, so it provides context and content and doesn't just rephrase the title. I am not a fan of sub-stubs. I don't think we should be doing this. I think these articles just clutter the encyclopedia and make it harder to find real articles to improve. But I choose not to be a rogue, and enforce the criteria as written.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:30, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Seems to me that an inline citation wouldn't add any content; it's more of a meta-tag, like a category or stub template. The only content other than a rephrasing is the Spanish translation, and that would seem to fit the spirit of the rule. --NE2 18:28, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to respond at WT:CSD, as it has been opened there, and I think this might be a decent discussion where wider input/interest might be better served there.---I'm Spartacus! ^{NO! I'm Spartacus!} 19:48, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I didn't mean to imply the conversation should he had here rather than there. I just thought this conversation is highly relevant, thus the link.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 19:52, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh shallow one LOL I've replied. Best Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 20:37, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

Hey there Fuhghettaboutit, how you doing these days? I'm not asking ... well ... yea, I guess I am. But if you ever need a break from your work here, I sure wouldn't mind you looking at something I did a while back. I did my best when I first started, to draft something up, and I'd love to have it looked at someday when you'd be in the mood to just relax and copyedit. It's kind of an essay, and if you'd be interested, I'd be very grateful if you could add some improvements to: User:Ched Davis/communication. I know it's not part of improving the 'pedia ... but just a thought. Hope all is well on your end. Cheers my friend. ;) — Ched :  ?  08:18, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Two viewpoints on cleanup tags

Howdy, I think some of the trouble on the discussion of the unreferenced template is two very distinct views of the audience of the cleanup tags. I think you are probably viewing the cleanup tag as informing heavily opinionated editors or editors with conflicts of interest that the burden of proof is on them. I think most of the other people in the discussion (or the ones who are not seeing your point easily and immediately) probably view cleanup tags as encouraging civic minded, librarian types to go hunt down some dusty old books and have fun adding references to pages.

Both viewpoints are valid and important, but I suspect are not understood implicitly or immediately by many people.

I, for instance, more or less only edit mathematics articles, and "unreferenced" is a hugely important tag because mathematics articles are *so incontrovertible* (or so incontrovertibly wrong) that many editors see references as unnecessary. Of course references are hugely useful to researchers and even fairly useful to wiki-gnomes, so these articles sorely need references. There is *no* disputed material in these articles, nor is there ever likely to be any. Its mostly just students copying down theorems from highly standardized textbooks, and the incontrovertibly wrong information comes when they copy it down wrong, or use two books with conflicting conventions. Almost always trivial to fix, and very rarely is there any disagreement.

Luckily I do also do wiki-gnome activities on a huge variety of young (or even just crappy) articles, so I do see lots of BLPs, POV forks, and various contentious articles. While sorting some categories, I even managed to find one that not-so-subtly made every article in it or even not in it a condemnation of one side or the other in the Israel-Palestine conflict. In subject areas such as these it is all too common for a new stub or POV fork to be unreferenced and just be filled with disputable claims (some of which could be sourced to wikipedia policy, but definitely the sort of statements that should start their wikipedia life sourced).

I suspect that your focus on "burden" is from dealing with these contentious articles, and so you might see people's disagreement (or just confusion) with your proposal as contention, etc. (I mean it might be, I don't know these people, but I suspect it is not). Instead, it might just be that they tend to edit articles where people don't have disputes, and sourcing is part of academic honesty and simple positive improvement of the encyclopedia. Rather than "I defend this statement with this source," it is more like "and if you think this article was exciting, just wait until you read these great books and historical articles!!!"

I think the unreferenced template really does have to speak to both crowds. We have lots of non-contentious articles and on those we need to be inviting people to add references, not warning them that information might be deleted. Of course on some pages, we definitely do need to be warning, so there must be a balance. JackSchmidt (talk) 20:45, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey Jack. Thanks for the comments. You know I proposed getting rid of the language entirely. I also proposed replacing it to not invoke WP:BURDEN but still refer to the verifiability policy. My proposed replacement was "Verifiability of information is one of Wikipedia's core content policies." What I just can't stomach is the fact that it very specifically invokes the subsection of the policy dealing with the burden but reverses it and people either can't see that, or are ignoring it. What I really think though, is that the people who are commenting have little experience with the applicability of that section of policy, and are glossing over the word, "challenged". The section doesn't mean if you don't have a source cited we can just zap it. In any event, if I can steel myself to, I'm going to stop looking at it for a day—just not visit, even if comments are left, because tearing my hair out is not my favorite Wikipedia activity.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:13, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Cool, I think then we are in total agreement. People aren't understanding what you are saying because they just are not seeing how this tag would be taken by editors on a page with a lot of challenged material. It directly quotes a section meant to defend WP:V from editors who make disputed claims with no sources, but manages to do so in a way that allows those editors to reverse the meaning of that section. I'll see if I can come up with some language that is inviting to the civic minded gnome (who is volunteering to take up the burden of their own free will), but also does not dilute the policy that the challenged material needs the source, not the challenge. It might be too hard, and I definitely won't get to it tonight, so leave any surviving hair alone for now! JackSchmidt (talk) 21:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Revelation about the meaning of "unverifiable"

Hi Fughetti,

I'm curious about your thoughts on this. --Born2cycle (talk) 22:53, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Re-formatting "Paid Editing" responses

Thank you. I wanted to do that myself before I added my endorsement, but couldn't work out how to do it. (I'll bet you were thinking this was going to be a complaint . . .) :-) // BL \\ (talk) 00:46, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I did indeed! People are so touchy about when you touch their posts (often with good reason) but it just didn't make sense that this was being formatting completely differently because a comment straddled the section. Cheers!--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:58, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I have added a reference so that my comment about LHvU is connected again; no big thing. // BL \\ (talk) 02:02, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the advice. It was very useful. ɪntəsvɛnsk 16:10, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Anytime:-)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:12, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Fuh, thanks for keeping such a steady hand with the Hermann Mucke (bioscientist) article. I would not myself have reinserted what had been thrown out (no time for editing wars, or interest in them), but when I found you had reinstated the text with succinct calls for specific facts I went over it again, and this forced me to improve this bio over its first version in terms of traceable sourcing. Its de-tagged now. - I've spent much too much time on this single bio and must urgently catch up with professional matters, so I might not be able to give Wikipedia much attention this week. But thats just one more reason for saying thank you right now! - Glst2 (talk) 16:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Kelly Pool

Sorry, I thought I had clarified. See the review page. Good work :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I am going to ask another FAC regular on feasibility of FAC. I am tempted to say go for it, so let's see what he says (also about where else ot publish etc.) Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:40, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

PS: I've been to those oases - Farafra, Bahariya.. etc. Have some pix I can scan if needed. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:41, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I've had a good look through Kelly pool and made a few small changes, and I have to say I think it's a minor masterpiece, a really worthy addition to the encyclopedia. I also have to say though that I think it would struggle at FAC, simply because of the unexplained technical terms like "kitchen", "scratching" and so on. I know they're all properly linked, but reviewers will expect at least a word or two of explanation that doesn't demand following a link to understand what's being said. The formula one articles like the current 2008 Monaco Grand Prix FAC candidate, or the professional wrestling articles, have had to come to terms with the same issue.

Whether you take this to FAC or not, it's still a great article though. --Malleus Fatuorum 01:31, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the copyedit and the encouraging words. I get the impression from your talk page that you are not prone to glad handing so I take it as higher praise than I might from a different source. I will keep working on it, and I we'll see what happens at FAC. I made an exciting discovery earlier tonight that pushes back the use of "behind the eight ball" to 1873—indisputable, reliable source proof, and another from 1877, which scoops every billiard source saying the expression was in use by "at least 1919", and putting a fine point on that the expression is not from the game of 8-ball (the game that eventually became 8-ball was invented in or about 1900, no earlier).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

		The Reference Desk Barnstar
		Thanks for answering my pro/epilogue question on the Language Reference Desk!--Ye Olde Luke (talk) 22:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks spam

Hey Fuhghettaboutit, I just wanted to stop by and say thank you. I greatly appreciate your support at my RfA. I knew you would not simply "go along with the supports", and would look to see if my contribs actually were improving. Which does lead me to a second "Thanks", I greatly appreciate all the help you've given me in becoming a better writer as well. I know that I still have a long way to go, but I feel a bit more confident knowing I can always ask for help. Thank you - it's greatly appreciated. — Ched :  ?  01:50, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Chiropractic controversy and criticism

Just say "The IP who placed the tag said blah blah blah." Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Many otters • One bat • One hammer)} 03:41, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I put the text on my talk page... but thought u might not have noticed it... again, thanks. 70.71.22.45 (talk) 03:42, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

Many thanks for your recent help following my {{adminhelp}} request. Jdrewitt (talk) 09:24, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] What Is This?

Behold: Beauty Rock. Notable? Db-Web? Db-Spam? I'm completely stumped here... -WarthogDemon 03:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks. -WarthogDemon 03:39, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Anytime:-)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:42, 2 July 2009 (UTC)